In this episode, Eric Rhoads interviews renowned artist Kevin Macpherson, who shares profound insights and inspirational advice for artists looking to reignite their passion. If you’re feeling uninspired or unmotivated, this is exactly what you need to get moving again.
Watch and listen as they discuss:
– What Kevin does to get out of being “stuck in a creative rut”
– His advice for artists who want to experiment and learn all types of painting media
– The canvas size he prefers using while plein air painting
– Where beginning artists should start their education
– And much more!
Bonus! What are the safest and most effective ways to sell your art online? Is it too early to start planning holiday marketing? Eric Rhoads answers in this week’s Art Marketing Minute Podcast.
Listen to the Plein Air Podcast with Eric Rhoads and Kevin Macpherson here:
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Related Links:
– Kevin Macpherson online: https://www.kevinmacpherson.com/
– PleinAir Magazine: https://pleinairmagazine.com/
– Plein Air Convention & Expo: https://pleinairconvention.com/
– Publisher’s Invitational: https://publishersinvitational.com/
– Submit Art Marketing Questions: artmarketing.com/questions
The Plein Air Podcast has been named the #1 Painting Podcast by FeedSpot for two years in a row. New in 2023: FeedSpot has named Eric’s Art Marketing Minute Podcast as one of the Top 25 Art Business and Marketing Blogs on the web.
FULL TRANSCRIPT of this Plein Air Podcast
DISCLAIMER: The following is the output of a transcription from an audio recording of the Plein Air Podcast. Although the transcription is mostly correct, in some cases it is slightly inaccurate due to the recording and/or software transcription.
Eric Rhoads:
This is episode number 260 with Kevin Macpherson talking about artists and getting out of a creative rut.
Announcer:
This is the Plein Air Podcast with Eric Rhoads, publisher and founder of Plein Air Magazine. In the Plein Air Podcast, we cover the world of outdoor painting called plein air. The French coined the term which means open air or outdoors. The French pronounce it plenn air. Others say plein air. No matter how you say it. There is a huge movement of artists around the world who are going outdoors to paint and this show is about that movement. Now, here’s your host, author, publisher, and painter, Eric Rhoads.
Eric Rhoads
Well, welcome to the plein air podcast, everybody. It’s Eric here, and I hope you are having a stellar summer. I think that painting is a little different this summer for a lot of us because well first off, it’s so hot in a lot of places. And there are fires in a lot of places, I noticed that I was out painting the other day and some of the distant trees were a little bit smoky, which actually made for better painting. Because atmosphere is always a nice thing to do. I usually like to get out early in the morning to get that atmosphere. But, smoke makes the sun turn yellow or orange, I mean orange and a lot of things like that. So I hope you’re not negatively impacted by the fires. That’s no fun. You know, some of the plein air painters in the past in history actually painted fires. There’s a classic painting that’s up in New Hampshire, in one of the museums up there. One of the hotels burning down and so, and there’s another one that Frederick church did have a fire somewhere, I don’t know if it was a forest fire what it was. But anyway, hope that anyway, hope you’re safe and hope you’re being careful. I had a friend here last week. And so because he’s a painter friend, I had a chance to go out and paint Sometimes I work too much. And I forget to go paint and, and so he’s like, Let’s go painting. And so we did and we went down, we went down to the river one day, really beautiful little waterfall. And then we went to this other major waterfall, a new one that I discovered. And we had to we could have painted looking down on it from the High Rocks looking down, which would have been a good view. But we decided to my friend says oh, let’s go down to the bottom of the waterfall. And so you got these two guys that probably shouldn’t be doing it climbing down three, four or 500 feet ravine at about a 30 degree angle. And I slipped and ended up sliding down 15 or 20 feet and I caught myself with a tree thankfully, could have gone way down. But anyway, all as well. We got down there we painted we had a great time it rained, and then we we climbed back up and we got scolded by our wives for taking such dangerous places. So you do want to be careful. Remember that? Take a friend with you and you’re painting any place that you think you could be in danger or not safe for any reason. And remember that rocks and grass can be slippery, even on a hot sunny day. Be real careful about that don’t take chances. I love the fact that the plein air movement is exploding worldwide. It’s it’s fun to hear about that. Our guest today, Kevin Macpherson is actually in Ireland and we’re going to hear from him in Ireland and he’s over at a plein air event in Ireland. It’s called Art in the open we have a really terrific podcast that we did with them. Oh, it’s been a couple of years ago now i’ll probably but it’s really talking about the plein air movement and how it all started here. And it’s been spreading over there and it’s spreading throughout Europe and so on to see that. We hope the plein air podcast will inspire you to paint outdoors because we think it makes all people better painters. And the lifestyle is pretty cool, right? Lots of friends to paint with a chance to be creative and outdoors and and this is what that’s all about. You know this is a chance to explore your creative journey and have some fun. So I’m grateful for you guys, the show would not be a success without you. And we’ve been a little inconsistent lately. My apologies. We’re working on it. Okay, at the end of the podcast we do the art marketing minute to help you sell more art and today we’re going to talk about internet marketing among other things. If you have guest ideas, always email them to me Eric at streamline publishing doc calm or private message me on, on anything Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, you name it. I’m there, LinkedIn. Coming up in September, pastel live, sometimes we want to try new mediums and we want to seek new ways to enhance our creativity. A lot of artists have turned for decades to pastel because it’s brilliant. It’s got vibrant color, and more more vibrant than any any thing in oil painting or acrylic painting can do. pastel painting is a big worldwide trend. And pastel live is an online event with three days and 30 of the top pastel artists in the world. And plus, there’s a fourth optional essential stay to kind of be a refresher for beginners. And it’s coming up a worldwide audience. It’s a huge, huge thing we’d love for you to join us at pastellive.com. To learn more about it. We also have as you know, I do some fall and spring retreats and soon I’ll be announcing another retreat. But before we do that, and I’m doing these because people love them so much. There’s so much fun because you make a lot of friends you paint together all day. For a lot of us we have busy lives, it’s a chance to escape our busy lives, where we’re caring for families and other people or we’re cooking or cleaning or working or going to work and, and commuting. And this is a chance to be in nature. So you know, our goal is you roll out of bed in the morning, we feed you breakfast, we inspire you with some announcements to talk about where we’re going painting we all go painting to same location unless you want to pick different locations. And then, we have sack lunches we take out to we picnic together, and then we have dinner together. And then we sit up at night and sing music and paint portraits and do games and we just have a lot of fun. It’s kind of like summer camp for kids. And I do want in the Adirondacks every spring, that one surprisingly, is almost sold out for next year. Surprisingly, I’m really surprised. And that’s because when people are at the event, we give them a chance to sign up for the following year. So it’s like 80% sold out already. But the one I wanted to talk to you about his fall color week, fall color week is in September, September 29. Through October 6, it is sold out. So why would I tell you about it? Well, we’re holding the event at a an event center called a Sylmar. It’s right on the ocean. And we have had a lot of people say, hey, we want to go to and so we have a waiting list or had a waiting list. And we begged them for more rooms. And they had some rooms cancelled from another event going on simultaneously. So we grabbed them. And we’ve sold several of them to people on the waiting list. But there are a few left. And by the time you hear this, I can’t guarantee it but go to fallcolorweek.com And it’s going to be painting, there’s not a lot of fall color in the Monterey Peninsula that time of year. Most of its inland we’ll find it but we’re going to be painting the ocean and the rocks. It’s going to be a lot of fun. There’s no demos, no workshops, it’s just all of us having a good time. And all people of all disciplines, all mediums. All levels are welcome. You know you don’t have to you can be a beginner, we don’t care. We’re all equals. We have a lot of fun, we’ll help you you help us. And we just were there to have fun. So that’s it fallcolorweek.com. Grab those last seats while you can. And speaking of that, plein air convention is going to be in Lake Tahoe and Reno in May. And that’s coming up and it’s already well over 50% sold out. We’re going to have 75 to 80 top expert painters teaching in five stages. That’s going to be terrific like Tahoe is going to be amazing Lake Tahoe and Reno we’ve got some pretty amazing things. I’m actually going out there in a few weeks to go out and make sure that I double check all the painting locations because they want to make sure they’re perfect. Okay, so go to pleinairconvention.com. Last but not least, if you’re not a subscriber of plein air magazine, well, if you’re into plein air, you should. I think it’s just really great. The digital edition for those of you who live outside of the United States and don’t want to suffer our horrific, horrific Postal Service. I mean, it’s not too horrific in the United States, but it can be horrific outside of the United States. So get a digital edition or digital edition has 30% more content than the print edition. A lot of people get both. And if you’re not a subscriber, we encourage you to do that. PleinAirmagazine.com Coming up after the interview, I’m going to answer your marketing questions with with all kinds of things if you have questions, send them to me, [email protected]. Okay, so today in the plein air podcast, we have a guest, it’s Kevin Macpherson. This is a little different than a normal podcast because it is from an event we recorded. We did an online event last week. And we had Kevin answering questions about how do you get out of a rut and if you didn’t happen to hear that. This is a good time to hear it now. We’re going to kind of Begin it in progress and end in progress. So it’s going to be a little clunky, but that’s just so good. We wanted to share it as many places as we possibly could. So here we go with Kevin Macpherson. Kevin is, as Carrie explained, he has lived a life beyond his wildest dreams. He is truly one of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life. I met Wanda and Kevin, probably about 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when I started before I started plein air magazine. And they were just so generous, and what can we do to help and Kevin’s laughing all the time, and he’s having fun, he doesn’t take himself too seriously. He’s just a joy filled person. And you know, he’s been around painted in 35 countries or more. His oils Cross are his paintings cross international borders. He speaks a language everybody can relate to. And he’s going to talk a little bit about language today. So he could teach you a visual language, it’s going to be very helpful. Now Kevin, as we mentioned, is recognized as one of the most accomplished Impressionists and plein air painters. He’s disciplined. He’s dedicated. It’s earned him critical acclaim and success and lots of awards. He’s a member of many top organizations and has been recognized for his accomplishments all over the world and his influence all over the world. So today’s coming today, Kevin is in case you’re joining late and you missed it. Kevin is in Ireland. And he’s been painting at the Irish event called Art in the open, which is a phenomenal event that I want to attend one day. I’m hoping to do that. So Kevin, welcome.
Kevin Macpherson 11:44
Hi, Eric. Welcome in hi to Kari and Amadine, everybody who helped me get this together. So nice to be here. And yeah, I’m in Ireland right now.
Eric Rhoads 11:53
So why aren’t you speaking with an Irish accent? That’s what I want to know.
Kevin Macpherson 11:58
My throat is a little raspy so.
Eric Rhoads 12:03
So he’s drinking to get us I’m drinking iced tea. So just know that the longer this goes, the more loose Kevin’s gonna get.
Kevin Macpherson 12:12
Exactly. Actually my buddies, Tony Robinson and Jane. I’m at their house right now on the cliff, near Rosslare and overlooking southeast towards Wales in England. This is where the ferry boats crossover. So it’s a wonderful place to be. So I appreciate them, setting me up here. Because getting Wi Fi and having a nice location is perfect. So
Eric Rhoads 12:36
it makes sense. You know, what a beautiful world that we could do this like this now. Hey, before we get into your creative ruts, solutions, and so on, I want to talk to you about a couple things. First off, tell us a little bit about art in the open what that that experience has been like your first time there.
Kevin Macpherson 12:51
No, this is my second time. Five years ago, I came as a judge. And this time I participated with the group and wonderful. We’re about 200 people and probably from about I think 18 or 20 different countries, Latvia, Russia, Belgium, Luxembourg, so many different places, Finland wonderful artists and, and the camaraderie and just the at ease feeling that someone can come here and join them as a mere beginner or very professional. There’s some amazing artists here. It’s it’s one of the really comfortable one of the most comfortable events I think I’ve attended to and Tony Robinson, the chairman of it, and the founder of it. He’s out painting along with Jane and Hyo and Jing, they’re out there on the cliff right now. Still painting. I highly recommend if you want to come to a place a foreign place the weather can be tricky, but it was beautiful. And you could see today it’s so beautiful out here really a beautiful Irish day.
Eric Rhoads 13:59
So Kevin, you must be very satisfied because you you were there at the founding of the plein air painters of America when that group first began, which was the kind of the the beginning of the modern plein air movement. And now to see what has happened and how the plein air movement has exploded around around America. And now, on my last podcast when I did the art the open people. They talked about how it’s exploding now in Europe and certain parts of you, you’re more than others. But how exciting to see plein air painting, really exploding around the world and people adopting the plein air lifestyle.
Kevin Macpherson 14:42
It is amazing, the art and the openness of the 17th year and then I was first invited to go to the plein air painters America show in 1987 One year after it started by Denise burns and that truly was the Very first and only, plein air group and the plein air show that built in something that’s, you know what you’ve taken to such a great level of getting so many people involved with it, it is finally exploding. It’s amazing.
Eric Rhoads 15:18
And it’s very gratifying to see people all over the world. And I love the fact that I know you do too, that you know, we can kind of go anywhere in the world and find fellow plein air painters that, we can go, they can tell us all the great spots and we can go to and, and just to see so many people enjoying the benefits all the joy of being outdoors being with friends, seeing color and light the way it really is rather than from a photograph. So would you just talk briefly about that from the benefit of why you plein air paint? Versus why? Why don’t you just paint in the studio all the time?
Kevin Macpherson 15:56
Yeah, for myself, I I think that there’s no better way to learn to truly see. And painting is really about seeing, it doesn’t matter what medium we use, but it’s how we look at stuff and how we interpret and break the code of what we’re looking at. And a photograph can be great reference. And, the iPhones and the photography today that you know, there’s so much information we can get out of those. But never get the same feeling when I come back after taking 1000s of photos on my many trips that I do all the time. I rarely get excited or emotionally attached to those when I come back and look at it. However, if I do 20 paintings, there’s a real connection. So it’s that that one step removed from the direct observation that the dialogue that we have with the subject and so for me, it’s it’s a lot easier to paint from life. It’s a lot harder in some ways, but it’s a lot easier, right? It, truly makes a, a reaction to what I’m looking at. And it always kind of self motivates each rushed work, where if I look at a photograph, I just don’t have that same feeling. Yeah.
Eric Rhoads 17:20
Well, and and it’s it’s so much fun. It’s so gratifying as well. Well, let’s talk about creative ruts. I’m really, really curious because you look like the guy who you know you how many years have you been painting 100 245 years of your life? So do you use Do you still have flubs do you do still get to moments where you just feel like you can’t, can’t get to the next level.
Kevin Macpherson 17:50
Actually, when you did the introduction, and reminded me of one of the things that how you said you have to keep on doing it persistence. And it is true. Years ago, I think it was like 95, I was in Ireland for eight weeks. And I was having just a very depressed feeling as I was trying to do each painting, like just never felt like I was getting what I hoped for. And it’s hard sometimes to really judge, when we are painting them to look at them objectively, right after the fact. So I remember I was just so depressed. I never been that way before. And then the next painting that I did was my best painting one of my best paintings I’ve done in my life. So sometimes you’ll go through those long plateaus. And maybe when you’re getting a feeling like that, maybe it’s because you’re pushing to a new direction, perhaps or something that’s about to click with you. At least it was on that. So I don’t I still get floods all the time. So I just painted over one of them today. So I did a couple days ago when that didn’t turn out. And then I use that as a base for another painting. So yeah, that’s part of the game. And especially with plein air painting, you have so many factors that you can’t control a life or working in a studio from photograph, where you have a time on your side and your lighting, whatever it may be. But outside, here especially it could be a beautiful day and then five minutes later, it’s raining on you. And then you switch that and five minutes sunny again, it’s cold, you know, there’s so many factors.
Eric Rhoads 19:34
So, if somebody’s watching this right now, before we get into the solutions to creative ruts, if somebody’s watching this and they’re saying to themselves, Kevin, you know, I just I just kind of sometimes I feel like I’m never gonna get anywhere. I feel like I’m I’m not only stuck I feel like I just can’t get to be at the level of Have a great painter like a Kevin Macpherson? What, what do you say to them?
Kevin Macpherson 20:05
Well, depends, if I had the opportunity to look at their work, you know, I could probably see qualities in their work that they may not even fully understand that might be really something that’s great. I’m good at when I’m teaching, someone can be a bit beginner or work a long time. And I can see that they’re speaking perhaps a language that let’s say that, if we were going to compare it to a boneyard or something, and I say, let’s look at his work. And because you’re speaking in, in the same type of color in the same type of brushwork, and maybe it would make you understand that, how you’re speaking in your visual language that, that it’s valid. And sometimes we just don’t, we can’t see that ourselves. But I’m pretty good at seeing that in other people’s work. And so, seeing and getting to critique might be just, maybe their drawing is off, maybe the values are off, maybe they don’t understand light, sunlight and shadow the way they need to be in sometimes it’s the one little clue, if you get a critique from someone you respect that can really just overnight, change your painting.
Eric Rhoads 21:24
And when there are people who break breakout people who you see, when you judge competitions that stand out head and shoulders above the rest, what’s the difference between a breakout painter and somebody who’s doing what everybody’s doing? You know, right, right. Now, one of the issues that I think a lot of us suffer with is that, a lot of us are just doing the same green paintings. And then, you see somebody who’s doing something totally different. And then you’re like, wow, that really stands out hot, what are the things that make a painting breakout? And then what are the things that I can do? Maybe Maybe this is going to be part of breaking out of ruts. But what are the things I can do to kind of figure out how to find out what’s really inside of me, how far can I push myself? Because, I think we, sometimes we want to be too safe.
Kevin Macpherson 22:22
Yeah, well, I think especially if you are involved in in plein air event, being safe is really I think, the worst thing you could do, that’s the opportunity to really try to push yourself. And if you, you’re in this event, and you’re open, you win a competition, for instance, if that’s what your goal is, in that particular event, if you try something that safe in, in, you don’t win, I think you’ll feel disappointed. But if you try something that’s extremely difficult, extremely out of your comfort zone, something that, really challenges you and you do win. That’s terrific. And if you don’t win, at least you, you tried your best in a different way, in a challenging way. And you have to, you always have to be inspired and challenging yourself. That’s the main thing, you can’t look at what other people are doing. Only to the fact going to the way it motivates you to try something or see something in a different manner. That’s one of the things I think, doing plein air events going out with other artists that can kind of challenge you to see something differently. So when you go out, and you go out with your friends and let them pick the location, and it may be a location that doesn’t inspire you, but it makes you then look, how can I find something in something that I wouldn’t normally stop? How can I find a different composition, a different way of seeing, and that’s what’s I think one of the really strong points of getting out of ruts, by painting with other people and, and sharing the ideas and being open to sharing and not in a competitive way but in kind of helping each other.
Eric Rhoads 24:13
Oh, excellent sense. So was the what was the moment that you went from being? Kevin Macpherson average guy, average painter to being Kevin Macpherson superstar? Was there like something that clicked? Was there something that that that you decided to try something different in in that vein of what you’re discussing?
Kevin Macpherson 24:35
I’d say for myself, it was it’s kind of a long road of kind of just inching along the way but probably for myself, meaning small paintings traveling around the world, for instance, way back in the early days of my career. When I was an illustrator, I would take a month or two off away from my advertising As an illustration job, and I would paint little six by eight inch paintings, so painting smaller gave me the opportunity to paint more and varied scenes around the world, for instance, as opposed to trying to paint a large composition that might take you months to do this way, every day, you’re, you’re approaching a new challenge a new lighting situation. So I’ve, I think that was one of my biggest things that led to my growth. And then at the same time, by painting small, you can make your paintings affordable, and have many of them to build your client base. And I think it’s just a matter of, I don’t think I had any one thing that was like always breakout. And I remember one of my artists friends, he finally got in southwest art magazine, and he thought, Okay, now I’m finally famous, but
Eric Rhoads 25:58
I never I’ve never heard of it.
Kevin Macpherson 26:01
One of those things is just one of those little stepping stones that, you know, adds to the growth of your career, but I don’t think it’s going to make it very few. I think, one day, that’s going to make it all happen. Yeah.
Eric Rhoads 26:15
Well, I love I love when I see people post on on social media, their painting is in, in one of our magazines, or somebody else’s, quite frankly, it’s just so delightful to see them. I’m so excited. You know, it’s kind of a monumental moment, but you’re right, it’s not going to make or break somebody, but it’s going to,
Kevin Macpherson 26:35
it’s going to help. definitely exciting. And you want all those stepping stones but but don’t, think that that one thing is really going to, change your whole life. You know, you got to keep on going.
Eric Rhoads 26:49
So I think we have some slides, what’s the first creative right, Kari, can you bring up that slide? Travel? Okay, let’s talk about that.
Kevin Macpherson 26:59
Well, my whole life, when I was a little kid, I ran away from home. So I, you know, I always love to travel, and I hitchhiked around the country when I was 1516, with $10, in my pocket crossing USA, I would just go everywhere. And, I, then right from the beginning of one does in our marriage, actually, we did our honeymoon in Ireland 45 years ago. And we went for six months, I sold everything I had. And I had $5,000. And we just went until we had $10, left, and then came back and started over again. And our whole life is pretty much like that. So the travel to new places, for me, inspires me to see just to see differently, and be exposed to new things that kind of make me want to paint it. So some people are very comfortable just staying in their home. And that’s just as good if you have, you know, something that’s inspiring you every day. But for me, it definitely makes me feel like okay, I’m here, just today, I better take advantage of it. It’s that feeling of being on vacation mode all the time. And I think you try to take the most of that when you’re on a vacation for a week, those seven days, you’re going full storm. And then then you think about when you get back home, you rest but so for me, I could be on a month trip. And every day, I feel like I gotta take the most of it make the most out of this. And for painting that that really helps a lot.
Eric Rhoads 28:44
I think to if I could just expand on that. I remember I took my kids on their first trip to Europe when they were, you know, maybe 15 or 14 or something like that. And it took him to England first. And then I took him to France to come to England, so they could assimilate a little bit. But what happens when, when you internationally travel, you’re just getting out of out of the United States, or quite frankly, getting into a different region you’re not familiar with, is that you see things differently. I have a couple here visiting me in upstate New York as we speak. And they she had never been east of the Mississippi. And you know, they’re like loving it because things feel differently, so she got out of her comfort zone. And I think that getting out of that comfort zone matters, when you see different kinds of cars or different kinds of, driving on the wrong side of the road or the correct side of the road is it may be and it just stimulates your brain and opens up new pathways in your brain.
Kevin Macpherson 29:45
Yeah, so I use that my whole career painting really basically, I would travel almost about eight months out of every year for painting. So that’s been pretty much wonders in my life. lifestyle, pretty much our whole whole career.
Eric Rhoads 30:05
That sounds wonderful. Yeah. So say that again.
Kevin Macpherson 30:10
I’m starting to get tired.
Eric Rhoads 30:13
You don’t even have gray hair yet.
Kevin Macpherson 30:15
I think I just cut it off the other day.
Eric Rhoads 30:19
Okay, so what’s the next slide? Seminars?
Kevin Macpherson 30:29
Tell us about I think, you know, like, let’s say, the plein air event you do and all the different seminars that you’re creating, definitely, I think you have to continue to educate, educate yourself in any opportunity. When I first started out, when I was doing illustration, I was a very successful illustrator. And I continue to take classes and workshops, from as many people as I could to improve by illustration. And that’s what got me painting outside and then totally shifted gears out of advertising into just plein air painting. But taking a seminar from somebody you respect, you not only learn from that teacher, but you also learn again, from those pointing people. And I think it’s, it’s better when you’re taking a seminar, let’s say with 20 people, because then you can see 20 solutions to problems. Instead of if you had a one on one with somebody, you know, which sometimes can be great, but at the same time, you have one problem that the teacher could deal with. So you really learn a lot when you’re in an environment that you’re with other people all striving to, do the best, and you’re learning different techniques from all those people, it’s really a great opportunity. So seminars are really important. And then, you know, I have many students that sometimes follow me many, many times, you’ve you’ll find a teacher that you really connect with that they can understand and see your growth and help you build, build where you’re headed.
Eric Rhoads 32:14
I find that even when we do our retreats, like the publishers Invitational in the Adirondacks or fall color week, we we all put our paintings out at the end of every day, we call it bringing in our cats, right? And you’re in a room, and there’s 100 people. So there’s 200 paintings from that day. And, and you you look and you see, all of us stood in the same spot, how did these people come up with that idea? And it’s just, it’s mind blowing. I think it really helps.
Kevin Macpherson 32:46
I think that really helps in when we used to do the plein air painters American show, you know, the other fine artists that were all part of the crew there, if somebody did a great painting, just kind of got your juices flowing, you got out to that person, yet, so that it’s a healthy competition. And most all the people I know, my good friends and wonderful artists, and, we share in a good way, I’m competitive in a good way. And we’re all helping each other for that. And I think you’ll find that in the plein air community, like you said, your group, you have 100 people up there, and, they’re all, they’re all hoping for success for all of us.
Eric Rhoads 33:28
Yeah, you know, this is not like other industries, everybody’s here to help everybody else, even though, we may be competing at an event, everybody’s giving, and that’s just, that’s what’s so wonderful about this whole plein air world is that everybody wants to help you.
Kevin Macpherson 33:44
And you might, when you’re doing those events, you do your best and but, you know, some some of the artists just, hit it that day and just hit it out of the park and deservingly.
Eric Rhoads 33:55
I find that if if I’m painting by myself, my standards, sometimes are different than if I’m painting with somebody good, right? Because it’s like, I you know, I can’t embarrass myself completely. So I probably try a little harder.
Kevin Macpherson 34:12
I think that’s, that’s very true. That’s why putting yourself into one of those competitive situations is healthy for you for that reason, once in a while, you don’t have to do that. But even in the seminar, it’s you know, it helps you up your game, I believe.
Eric Rhoads 34:30
Well, it’s interesting, putting yourself getting yourself out of your comfort zone. As the same thing. I I decided to do my first workshop. And I did it because I’m up in the Adirondacks and somebody dropped out and they needed somebody and so I said I do it, but it’s like, now I’m thinking about you know, it’s the imposter syndrome of man. I really I shouldn’t be doing this. I don’t know anything about this. But what what I am forcing myself to do is to get out of that car for his own, because I know that I’m going to be fine. I know I’ll get through it. But I know that when when I’m standing in front of other people, I’m going to have to do it well. And I think that’s going to that’s going to be the mattering. So that’s why I like it when people go out to workshops, and but but don’t you find sometimes people go to a workshop and then they don’t do anything they’re taught?
Kevin Macpherson 35:22
Once in a while, yeah, you’ll you’ll get people you wonder why they why they do that. Maybe their husband just wanted to get rid of him for a week or something. But yeah, but most of them don’t. And I have so much fun with them. When I do the workshops, you and we make it fun. And, you know, we really learn a lot, but we’re having a good time while we’re doing it.
Eric Rhoads 35:44
That helps you learn better, I think, I think so. Yeah. So what’s our next slide? Hey, it was friends.
Kevin Macpherson 35:53
You know, like, getting, let’s say you are in a rut, you know, it, it’s one of those things, just having your friends say, Okay, we’re going to pain on Thursdays, and you might feel kind of on Thursday morning, oh, I don’t want to get out. I don’t want to go to studio. But, you know, if you kind of commit to something, whether it’s a seminar, just beaming with friends, you know, once a week, that too, will keep you motivated, we have to do it. You know, and there’s a lot of lot of ways we can make excuses not to do it. And and again, just the travel part. Sometimes, you know, you commit, you’re out there, you have that amount of time you set aside for that. That’s important. But, you know, if you’re at home, and you just make a deal with your friend every Thursday, you know, we’ll go out one day they choose next day you chose the location, I think that helps helps you get out of, you know, whatever rut you’re thinking I you know, I very rarely am not motivated. You know, I can be lazy, but I’m not interrupting.
Eric Rhoads 37:03
Alright, what’s next? Different subjects? Oh, that’s interesting.
Kevin Macpherson 37:09
you know, it’s easy for all of us, I guess, to start seeing the same thing and being, I think when we’re successful, sometimes you start to repeat yourself. So you know, I think forcing yourself to do some things that are different for yourself, or maybe difficult for yourself challenging for yourself. For instance, when I went to China, back in 2010, I think it was, I didn’t paint portraits at that time, but I went there for a month. And I said, I’m going to paint some portraits. So that that was kind of the start of doing many portraits, and I’ve done hundreds of them now and really liked that. And so actually, this morning, I had painted a portrait. So you know, I think that kind of helps him when you paint something like that. Let’s say you’re a landscape painter, I often hear people say, in my class, you know, I’m an landscape painter, you know, and they lock themselves in, or they, they are a portrait painter, why don’t paint landscapes, if you’re a portrait painter, it’s going to increase your drawing skills. And then when you are out doing landscape, it’s going to actually feel much easier because the drawing skills doing a portrait are much more difficult to get it right. You could be incorrect on a tree and get away with it. But on a face, I think you have a little problem if you take it too far up. So you know whether it’s cityscapes or painting a car, whatever it might be, just try to see something different. Try to change up your subject matter and all of a sudden, it may totally shift. What you love painting, you know, you may become a different subject. Painter.
Eric Rhoads 39:08
I think you have to be careful about the stories you tell yourself. I used to say, I hate I hate the idea of painting and snow. And we did one of our events up in Canada and they had a rare 100 year storm and we had to paint and snow or we weren’t going to paint. Some people stayed inside and painted from photos. Some people painted out the windows. And I begrudgingly went out and painted in the snow. And I learned that I loved it. I had been telling myself I hated it all these years but just by forcing myself to do it. I discovered something new that I really, really enjoyed. Yeah,
Kevin Macpherson 39:44
I’d say that’s a good point. I mean, I have a painting I love painting, such as sunny days and so good. A day painting to me is I have a hard time sometimes getting out getting motivated on a great day. And this was one I did the other day in one of the little villages here. And it was one of my favorite times it was actually raining. And so I had a very good raincoat on and got under an awning. And you know, it was misty and dripping on the paint. And it was one of my favorite paintings of the whole week. So, you know, you got to sometimes get out of your comfort zone. And that too, just like you said, I’m kind of looking forward painting more rainy days. Now when the sun’s out here, I said, Oh, I didn’t feel like iron it.
Eric Rhoads 40:46
I think I think a great workshop somebody should do is just say, Okay, we’re gonna meet in the back alley. And you got to find something within 20 feet of here and figure out how to make it beautiful. Yeah,
Kevin Macpherson 40:57
it truly that’s, I remember painting in France one time with one of my workshops, and we got to the bus station, or the bus stop. And for some reason, the bus, which was supposed to come in Was it an hour and a half later or something. So I just did my demo right there and did a wonderful painting. So it really does sometimes force you to see and learn a lot by not painting your same process.
Eric Rhoads 41:27
Okay, next slide, please. different mediums. When you say mediums, are you talking about mediums to make your paint looser? Are you talking about actual different mediums like oil versus watercolor, etc?
Kevin Macpherson 41:45
Actually, yeah, that’s a good question, Eric, actually, I’ve been mostly a painter in oils, you know, for most of my career, and then I started using watercolor and acrylic for some of my travels, which I really like. And it’s definitely challenging. And it’s, for the watercolor for instance. I don’t really have the technique, I actually use the technique, just like my oils are start with my darks and work towards the lights very different than most watercolors do. And I deliberately, not really tried to study with someone doing watercolor because I feel like it’s, it’s a different medium. But it’s the same way to see. So you know, painting for me is all the visual language it’s learning to see. And if I maybe use the watercolor in a way that’s kind of wrong, maybe I’ll come up with something that’s interesting. And so sometimes not getting instruction, we might find something that’s unique to the way we work. And then I started using acrylics recently, too, and I really am enjoying that. And that it’s a challenge because it sets up so fast. And I love the oil paint that I can move, I feel it’s almost like sculpture, I love when it’s thick, and I can actually push the paint around and change the shapes. But with the acrylic, it sets up a lot quicker. So, you know, I’m finding different ways in different ways I layer the paint that are working and making, you know, another unique way for myself. And for using these different mediums like the watercolor or acrylic, when I’m making travel, I think it’s really convenient, you know, because it sets up and dries so quick for packing. So, so that’s been a good thing.
Eric Rhoads 43:46
Well, I think the other thing is that people are kind of getting away from wanting to you know, a lot of people are wanting to do toxic free painting and get away from chemicals. For travel, you know, taking something like wash or or watercolor or acrylic with you on a trip, you don’t have to, you know, carry chemicals on airplanes if you can, and, and, you know, it’s just easier to find a cup of water.
Kevin Macpherson 44:14
Well, definitely in places I go sometimes are very primitive and you couldn’t find art supplies or like you’re selling you know, the Terps and things like that. So it’s it’s really good. And the other thing, it makes it easier sometimes like you mentioned guasha watercolor, it’s something that you can easily pull out of your pocket and do a small sketch and have maybe more opportunities and maybe you’re traveling with your family. And it’s hard sometimes if you’re not all with painter sometimes to find the time, two or three hours to set somewhere but you know, with a little watercolor sketchbook, you can maybe grab 20 minutes and not have your family be so bored with the situation. So that’s good to know. One of the other thing generic, like working with watercolor, for instance. And then if a watercolor is changes to oil, you know, the textural differences, but when they bring in, you know, a great watercolors brings in that transparent and fluid movement, you know, maybe that’s the underpinning for the painting. And then they put in the opaque paint, the combination of that one artist friend of mine, Alan Polt, he was such a great watercolors, and then when he got into oils, that the transparent, thick and thin was just luscious to look at. So you’re gonna bring some of this back and forth into each of your mediums that you do. So I think it really can teach you a lot.
Eric Rhoads 45:45
I had a painting that sat on my easel and sat at the base of my easel for a long time. And it was something was wrong with it, I couldn’t figure it out. It just wasn’t right. And that I that I hoped that was the year I hosted the first watercolor live. And so I paid close attention watched it, I wasn’t doing much watercolor painting at the time. But I, I painted along, I tried to do what they taught me to do, you’ve got different teachers, different instructors, different approaches. And one day, somebody used a trick. And the light went off the bell went off and said, That’s it. And so that as soon as that was over, I ran back home and I got that painting out on a used that watercolor technique on the oil painting. And it like that did it that nailed it, that was perfect. So the idea of, you know, other people’s ideas and informing you, you know, you can get a great idea about oil painting from a pastel painter or from a watercolor painter, etc. So there’s just a lot of different approaches on that.
Kevin Macpherson 46:47
Yeah, so don’t get stuck into your landscape painter or portrait painter or oil painter, you know, just be an artist and be open to whatever can continue to keep your inspiration because you know, to paint for 45 years, how do we can continue to be inspired and be motivated and keep our own interest, you know, so I think that’s important to realize that you know, our job is to remain inspired in any which way and so we may have failures when we’re going into those other mediums, but I think it might really opened some doors like you said, you kind of open and way of seeing that you didn’t see before.
Eric Rhoads 47:31
Well what I’m finding now that I’ve been painting in all these different mediums, I’m less bored, right? I was getting a little bored with oil painting, sometimes I’m less stuck. And also I find that you know sometimes a watercolor is gonna give me what I want to communicate sometimes a pastels gonna give me what I want to communicate sometimes in acrylic, I went to I took a group of people to Japan earlier in the spring. And I went to visit with two of the paint companies there. One of them was Turner and the other one was Holbein. They showed us how to make paint and stuff like that and I walked away with a set of acrylic wash. And I’ve been using that acrylic wash and I got me reenergized because it paints different than regular acrylic. It’s it paints more like wash, it’s a little flat, you know. And so I’m having so much fun with that and you’re painting in Are you painting in regular acrylics, or you’re painting in a type of acrylics, like slow drying acrylics? Or what are you doing?
Kevin Macpherson 48:37
I’m actually I’ve been using golden Open Acrylics. Yeah. So but it’s a little bit of I really liked those. But then I’m using a February on a paper or an arches oil paper, for some of it. And so it kind of that in some ways, it defeats the slow drying process because it sucks it in. But then again, I can actually lay in some transparent marshes, almost like a watercolor on top, and then do some layering. So I’ve been the last trip in Sicily, a month or so ago. After a few weeks of painting. I finally was really just finding the right technique with it. It just came together and then I went home and I forgot what I did. But it was it was fun, though. So I’m enjoying it gives me an opportunity to just explore. So techniques that feel different than the oils.
Eric Rhoads 49:39
I have any have any acrylic paintings nearby?
Kevin Macpherson 49:43
Yeah, actually. Yeah. All the paintings like the one I just showed you. This is acrylic.
Eric Rhoads 49:48
Yeah. See, I would have never looked at that and said that’s acrylic.
Kevin Macpherson 49:52
Yeah.
Eric Rhoads 49:54
Don’t you think that some people used to have a stigma like some people would say, Well, you know, you Can’t sell an acrylic painting in a gallery or something those those paintings overcome that stigma?
Kevin Macpherson 50:05
Yeah, I don’t think I don’t think you would know it, you know, necessarily. This was another though rainy day, which is fun.
Eric Rhoads 50:21
oh, that’s spectacular. Did you carry those frames over there with you?
Kevin Macpherson 50:25
Actually, I had a just had it made.
Eric Rhoads 50:27
Oh, yeah, that’s just beautiful. So you’re really, you know, when you’re applying the techniques that you, you know, that, that you’ve learned, you’re still getting the same effects, you just have to kind of learn how to get them by different.
Kevin Macpherson 50:42
And as I said, there’s, there’s, you know, some days, it just works. And then some days it doesn’t and some days, like here where it’s moister, you know, that gave another one challenge that, you know, actually this guy and stuff started dripping. And, you know, when it was getting too wet. And then when I was in Sicily the other day, it was a dry and windy day, and you know, it was setting up and it was annoying me that, you know, was getting the edges were getting a little too dry too fast. So that’s a challenge. So every day you kind of have that, but, but it can open up some opportunities of new discovery really. So yeah, you know, my, I still start with my magic grid and all my paintings. And, you know, I think for the inspiration and getting out of ruts, I think this not only, you know, for myself, as reinspired me in such a big way.
Eric Rhoads 51:41
I know what Evan is referring to is the magic grid is a system that he’s developed. And we did. We did a video together on how to do it. And it’s pretty amazing. And I’ll tell you what, Kevin, if you’re okay with this, when we’re done here today, we’ll give away a couple of one of your magic grid landscape videos and one of your magic grid portrait videos you okay with that?
Kevin Macpherson 52:03
Yeah, that’d be great. You know, it was interesting, I did a presentation in the opera house the other night, for the people at the art in the open, and I was very thorough discussion on my magic grid process. And then I did a couple little seminars during the art in the open. And yesterday, a fella came by, and he’s just said, I changed his life, you know, just literally in two days. Most people who paint for a long time, you mentioned earlier in your discussion, in the opening, how when we have the bad habits, that’s the biggest thing to overcome, I can get somebody who’s never painted in their life in one week. It’s amazing what they can do. It’s when when people paint for 30 years incorrectly and don’t really have the language to understand how to make a two dimensional painting. I think it’s much harder for him. So it’s changing. So when I, almost everybody that was in the little workshops in the presentation, it was an eye opener of really fully understanding what the land language of abstract thinking is to make a realist painting. So it was really fun to see that and have some people come up and see the difference. They did literally in a day, their next painting by using the thought process, I communicate it with them.
Eric Rhoads 53:36
And we have a lot of questions about the magic grid. And we can’t get into a lot of depth about it because of time here. But maybe you could give us a minute tip pull out the magic grid and kind of help people understand what this is all about.
Kevin Macpherson 53:48
Okay. Yeah, you know, the two or three videos that we did together, Eric, you know, I really feel that they’re so well done, and we communicated well on it, I highly recommend him. But basically, you know, what I like to tell people is, you know, this is we’re painting a flat surface. And you know, if you just really, you know, the most simple way to think about this, you know, I have all these mosaics on here. And so first of all it taught it helps us understand composition. And that may be to say this the most obvious thing that people think that it’s going to do, but not only that, the way I put it all together, it helps us with color. With gradations movement, eye movement through there. It helps us develop the star of that painting. It helps us learn to see and relate color so much better helps us with the brushwork. There’s all these facets that it helps. It’s basically a decision maker. You know, every stroke we put down as an artist, we have to make a decision and this one really puts all the little aspects and painting together and helps us with those decisions.
Eric Rhoads 55:07
It’s also kind of like doing stained glass with oil.
Kevin Macpherson 55:10
Exactly in that, you know, when I talk about making, I use the term mosaic and stained glass as the most simple way to understand what we’re trying to do when we’re making a painting. So when you go outside, if you just say, I’m going to make a stained glass window of the scene I’m looking at, now I’m going to make every piece of out of glass and tell the glassmaker how and where to cut each piece. It’s amazing how that builds your painting. It’s such a simple and easy way of understanding. And it takes away the thing thinking and that’s the biggest problem. I think people have they, they want to paint grass and trees and water and hair. And they need to become an abstract painter.
Eric Rhoads 56:02
Kari is gonna come on with questions.
Kari Stober 56:05
first question is, so we’re talking about getting out of a rut. And all of these things that we’ve talked about today are, you know, you’re in a big rut, and you do these things. But what happens for you, Kevin, when you are in, say, you’re in the middle of a painting, and you get stuck? What do you do in that situation? When you’re, you know, you’re in the middle and don’t know, either where to take the painting or something feels off? What do you do to try to get yourself out of that situation?
Kevin Macpherson 56:34
Well, you know, there’s many times when that may happen, and I think you just got to step away from it a little bit. And, you know, when I used to do illustration, and I still I dream paintings, and I dream solutions, it seems like sometimes you just, you step away, in your mind still working on that thing. And let’s say you step even away from days, and you know, you’re out doing something else, all of a sudden, sometimes, how to solve that painting comes into play. I have friends are going crazy
Eric Rhoads 57:11
now with friends. Like, you don’t need enemies. Exactly.
Kevin Macpherson 57:16
So you know, I think I think probably the best is just step away from it. Turn it upside down. Come in the next morning and see it fresh. And sometimes right away, you can see something that is wrong with it, or how to fix it. There’s a lot of times I’ll do my paintings is that on my trips, I’ll have paintings that I keep for a year or two years in my studio, and all of a sudden, it clicks on me. I know how to fix that painting. someday, someday I know how to fix 10 of the paintings. So but I think moving forward on a problem is better than beating the problem to death. You know, it’s better sometimes you just put that one away and do a new one.
Kari Stober 58:12
Um, okay, so we were talking about different mediums and how different mediums inform the others. As a beginner artists, this one lady is trying to learn watercolors, oils and pastels, do you recommend that someone tried to stick with one medium until they’ve mastered that? Can they do all the mediums at the same time? Do you you know, how do you juggle those? Do you do one per day? Or do you do like a fixed period of time where you’re working on just this medium? How do you? How do you recommend somebody who’s starting out with that?
Kevin Macpherson 58:43
You know, it was a question that we had at a panel discussion just the other day with art in the open with it, half a dozen or so artists. And that same question came up. Usually, when I go on a painting trip, let’s say I went to Italy, I’m I may just take watercolors, and I focus that, you know, for a month or where however long I’m on that trip, and it gives you time to get a feeling for it, work with it and have a somewhat of a routine on that, I’d say having a block of time is probably better. And one of the you know, I like playing around, as I mentioned earlier with different mediums, you know, and it could be every day you switch every month you switch or you get a session of, you know, a whole year perhaps with one medium, and then another artists that you know, they think it’s better to just focus on one, you know, so that you become the best with that medium. So, there’s a lot of ways we can discuss that. And you know, to get really good at something, it takes some time but at the same time, like I mentioned for myself, I’m painting for 45 years, how do I keep myself entertained in To retain. So by doing that, I like to mix it up a bit.
Kari Stober 1:00:04
Um, so when you talked earlier about doing more you do smaller plein air paintings, do more of them, you know, each day. So two part question number one is do you give yourself in a lot of time, if you’re trying to paint each day on how you know how long you can work on a particular painting. And part two is what do you deem as a smaller painting is there a certain size that you try to stick to,
Kevin Macpherson 1:00:27
I find, like 11×14, I’ve been using that size, which is not too small, not too large for the session have a two to three hour painting. And, you know, if I’m doing a little six by eight painting, and it takes me three hours, I don’t care. You know, I think a lot of people think plein air painting is, you know, done fast and loose. But you know, it’s, it’s the thoughtfulness and the feeling of a more poetic faceting of forms that, you know, make a painting look loose, although that painting can take a long time to do so I think sometimes, people just think, Oh, I just whacked this out in 20 minutes, I don’t care if it took 20 minutes or 20 hours, you know, that’s our job to make it a good painting. So I think if it takes you a longer time to get it done, and you’re holding on to the effect that you’re after for plein air painting, then that’s okay. You know, the often that the event that we’re looking at someday as a lighting effects, maybe lasts seven minutes. And but it might take an hour and a half to kind of solve it. And so I try to hold on to that effect. But I still have to manipulate the paint and all the shapes to make it a good painting.
Kari Stober 1:01:48
Very good. Okay, so a couple other questions. Should an adult learn classic academic drawing first, and then try to find their style? Do you think having that academic education is pertinent to being an artist? Or can you just, you know, jump right into where you are?
Kevin Macpherson 1:02:07
Well, I think you have to have foundation and structure and good skills to communicate what you’re trying to do in the painting. So if your drawing skills are terrible, you know, like, you can’t communicate, if you if you don’t understand values in color, you know, you’re, you’re just not going to maybe communicate the emotion you’re after. But at the same time, I’ve seen people study very seriously and lose all the passion out of their painting. So you have to find what you need along the way. And by having seminars, having the opportunity for the videos that are out there by so many great artists, you can really have access to a lot of great learning opportunities that you couldn’t have done, you know, 1020 years ago. So definitely, though, you have to build your skills to be able to communicate what you’re trying to communicate.
Kari Stober 1:03:09
I had a couple of questions about the magic grid number one is, can you use the magic grid for different mediums like pastel? And also do you use it for plein air painting?
Kevin Macpherson 1:03:19
definitely when work for pastel, That’s the silliest question. Everything, but it’s it’s funny that people say Oh, well work for a Portrait Award for watercolor. Yeah, it’s it’s really teaching you the language of painting. So it works for anything. And yeah, and for pastel, it’s actually terrific. To be honest.
Eric Rhoads 1:03:42
I gotta I gotta just say, Kevin, that once in a while, you know, we have produced over 700 Art instruction videos, and some of them are, are, you know, 20 30, 40 hours long. That video that magic grid. And I recommend, honestly, the portrait and the landscape because that way you get to see how both can be done in that system. But where you articulate how you do the grid, why you do the grid, how you use the grid, how you use it in each of these environments, it it’s life changing. If people would do that they’d invest. I don’t even know how long these are, but they’re not very long. Invest 2, 3, 4 hours. It’s game changing. I think it’s Game Change.
Kevin Macpherson 1:04:33
I do too. I’m thrilled and you know, it’s interesting, beginners can just advance so quickly and understand but some of the very professional painters that have been exposed to it overnight, it’s amazing because they have those skills that carry us, you know, to they, they can really change especially their color, so quickly improve their color, so It’s really exciting to see the change that they have. So I’m really happy with those.
Eric Rhoads 1:05:05
Do you find that? You know, you know, a lot of people who have been painting for a lot of years like yourself? Do you find that a lot of them get stuck in ruts? Or are they out there pushing their limits and learning from other people attending seminars? themselves?
Kevin Macpherson 1:05:24
Well, I think the some of the yeah, my friends and the best artists, you know, they’re always open to learning from each other, and from others. So, yeah, definitely. You know, I went to Vienna the other day, just to look at Egon shielders work. And, you know, met up with Clyde Aspevig. And we had a good time looking at that. So we’re always seeking to improve our work. But especially Yeah, be open. There’s so many artists now that you have access to through YouTube and Facebook and videos, that open your eyes, you know, from artists all over the world that really continue to inspire us.
Eric Rhoads 1:06:04
Kevin, any final thoughts?
Kevin Macpherson 1:06:07
Well, thank you all for having me on this, Eric. And Kari, I appreciate it. And I’m glad we were able to find a place for Wi Fi. And I wish you a lot to luck. I do appreciate having the opportunity to share some stuff with you.
Eric Rhoads 1:06:22
Yeah, it was really great. Kevin, thank you so much. And God bless you. You’ve been a just a good friend and a good soldier, you know, on behalf of the plein air movement, you’re inspiring us all you’ve been inspiring us for years, I would encourage everybody to go out and, and get Kevin’s books. He’s got four of them. Right four of them. And for, for four books. That’s a Herculean effort in itself. And, and get his videos and and just, you know, study him and do what he says whatever Kevin says, Just do it. When I first started painting, somebody said Kevin Macpherson says go do 100 small paintings. Limit yourself to 30 minutes. And I said, Okay, that’s what I’m going to do, because Kevin said to do it.
Kevin Macpherson 1:07:18
Well, thanks again, Eric. I appreciate it.
Eric Rhoads 1:07:20
Thank you, Kevin. Say hi to everyone over there. Say hi to Hi, whoa, and everyone else. Okay. Thanks for doing it. Well, I hope you enjoyed that getting out of the rut with Kevin Macpherson. And I thought it was very valuable. He had some things in there that I didn’t expect him to say. That was kind of nice and good. And since he said that, I’ve actually been playing with a couple of those things and I’m still in my rut, but I’ll get out of it. Okay, so it’s time now are the marketing minute. Let’s do it.
Announcer 1:07:55
This is the marketing minute with Eric Rhoads, author of the number one Amazon bestseller Make More Money Selling Your Art, proven techniques to turn your passion into profit.
Eric Rhoads 1:08:07
You know, we have the art marketing minute as a separate podcast if you don’t want to wait till the end of the plein air podcast, you can just find that and you can send your questions to me [email protected] you ever want to come on live, you can do that too. We can probably arrange that or pre record you. The other thing I just want to mention is I’m now doing a thing called Marketing Mondays. And that’s on my YouTube show. If you go to YouTube, and look for art school alive, or you can find it usually on my Facebook accounts and some others. Anyway, we go live and I answer art marketing questions, you can ask to answer questions there or you can pre submit questions. We do them in both places, but marketing is so important. So anyway, we have a question from Lorraine Potocki what is the safest and most effective online ways to sell your artwork? Well, I you know, I’m gonna go backwards. Just a second Lorraine because a lot of people and I just constantly hammer on this and if I do it too much, I apologize. But a lot of people are like, you know, I want to focus on tactics and tactics are selling work online or selling work through advertising or selling work through direct mail or selling work through gallery you know, there’s a lot of tactics. And the reality is that you want to make sure you set your goals first because everybody’s easily seduced by all these supposedly sexy things, but they may not be really right for you or right for you for what you’re trying to do. Depending on how much work you need to sell what kind of work you’re trying to sell how well it looks online because some work I know an artist. This artist I met with had this absolutely incredible artwork I met in person went to his studio in Colorado. And his work was just so stunning in person, but when he sent pictures of but it just was flat, you know, the pictures didn’t represent it well. And so some artwork doesn’t represent well, in a social media environment, just keep that in mind. But some, especially if it’s really big artwork and a lot of big brush thick brushwork and paint, stuff like that. But so figure out what’s, what’s the right thing to do before you say online. Now, Online is a very wide variety of things. Of course, you know, there’s all the different social media, there’s online would be considered website would be considered online galleries would be even considered email marketing, and having an online store, you know, there’s a lot of different things. And they’re all effective, and they’re all ineffective. And what I mean by that is that they might be effective for you, they might not be, everything depends on if you use core marketing principles, if you don’t use core marketing principles, if you don’t know and understand them, go read my book, because it really talks about those things. It’s called make more money selling your art. And the reason is, that if you if you do an email campaign, and you don’t do the right kind of copywriting, or you don’t ask for the order, or you don’t do the right things, it’s not going to work. Same thing with a social media campaign, and so on, so on, you know, I am a big spender. On social media, I spent a lot of money, I can’t even begin to tell you how much money it is. But it’s a lot of money on social media, because it works really well for us. But you know, you see these artists who, you know, Facebook, or somebody will say, you know, just boost this post, you boost this post, and it cost you 15 bucks, and it doesn’t do you anything. And so you’ve got to really understand that. And it has a lot to do with the copy that you write and the images that you use, we test everything, we test them. And then we test them again. And we test them again, we test them again. Because a lot of things that we put out there on social media we’re spending money on they don’t work. And so and so you could do organic social media, you know, that’s putting a painting out on on your social media feed and saying that it’s available, sometimes that works really well that I think would you say the safest and most effective. There’s two different things. The safe part is there’s a lot of scams going around, I got scammed. I’m embarrassed by it. But I got scammed two different times. One time a company contacted me and they said, you know, we love your artwork, we love your posts, we love your paintings. And we would like to help you grow your social media. And so they, they I went through a full presentation with them, they got up got me on a zoom call. And they’re like three or four people, they were in suits and ties were credible. Looking at agency, they showed us a picture of their building. And they did this in depth presentation about how they were going to generate money for me with my social media. And that was a really cool thing. And so they said, Great, all you got to do is go in there and change the setting right now and put our name in there. And I did it, they took control of my Facebook account and locked me out. They went to that much trouble to do that. Okay, so there’s obviously good reason for them to do it. Because I spent so much money with Facebook, we were able to pick up the phone call them and they were able to reverse it and in about 15 minutes. But usually that’s not possible. And I don’t know if it’d be possible today. So be careful about promises that people are making, you know, we’re gonna run ads for you or ask you to run ads on your social media, etc. You know, we have we hear from a lot of people who are, you know, you get this email, it says My wife has or husband or cousin or whatever, you know, we have an anniversary, birthday, whatever. And I love your work and I want to surprise him or her and, or it and, and so they they say you know, they want to buy a painting and then they buy a painting from you and they overpay you for it. And then they say and then then you contact them you say oh, you overpaid me and they say well just Venmo me the money or whatever. And you Venmo them the money and then the other money never clears and then you’re stuck because you’ve sent them money and the other money never cleared. And that’s something you want to be careful. Make sure it clears your bank or your payment system or something. Make sure it’s not fraudulent and make sure you don’t ship it if they’re in an urgent you know, that’s the that’s the scam right? It’s a birthday, I gotta have it tomorrow you got to FedEx it to me, you know, they don’t even care if they get your painting even if they do maybe they’re they’re selling it. But the reality is, there’s a lot of that going on you got to be really careful talk to people bet them and then you know use a credible source for payment. That you know that if you know if the if you get a Venmo payment or PayPal payment or whatever it is you’re using Apple Pay, it’s probably going to go through but there’s always possibility they file a claim against you be careful about credit cards too. So there’s not a most effective there’s so much. I mean, it’s just really a tough question. I think that we all fall for this, this belief that our social media is a big deal. And sometimes it is, please don’t misunderstand me, I have on one of my accounts, I have a couple 100,000 followers on my Instagram. And that’s on realism dot today. And you know, so I reached a lot of people, but it turns out that some of them are not legit. Some of them are bots, you know, you hear from people like that all the time. You just got to be really careful. You think that you’re, you know, if I, if I do a feed, let’s say I do a post, and I think oh, all 200,000 people are going to see it. The reality is, that’s not true. Only 3% See it. Instagram met on Facebook, they only feed it to 3%. That’s a new number I just learned it used to be 7%. So and the reason they do that is because it takes a lot of energy to feed everything that everybody does. So they test it, they want to make sure it’s good. If it’s if they get a lot of engagement, a lot of response, then they’ll push it out to some more people, if they get a lot more engagement, they’ll push it out to more and more. But if you think that your 3% is a marketing strategy, think again, because it’s not. And so you got to be really careful about that. There’s also you know, a lot of great online galleries and a lot of scam ones. So you got to bet that stuff, talk to other artists find out what works for them. There’s also print services, you know, where you can advertise your stuff online. There’s a lot of things out there. You know, there’s people who provide websites and have some marketing services, some of them are good, some of them not so good. There’s, there’s people who are, you know, they’ll ask you to spend six or 10 or $15,000 upfront, and they’re gonna give you a lifetime of stuff and do all this stuff for you. And I’ve heard mixed reviews on that. I’ve heard some people say, you know, I spent all this money and I got zero results. I’ve had other people say I spent all this money and I got lots of results. So you have to be just checked with people. Always check everything, test everything. There’s not a an easy answer. I wish there was I’m sorry about that.
Eric Rhoads 1:17:11
Okay, second question comes from Caroline Gavin in Maine. Nice to hear from you, Caroline. Thinking ahead. When should artists start or holiday marketing? Are there other holidays? It makes sense to market art? Well, I think these are really great questions, Caroline. I think you know, this is this is the beginning of August or July, late July. And this is the halfway point for the year right. So December is is coming up in well, holiday season really starts kind of late October, although the stores will start putting Christmas things in before Halloween probably. So I think you want to be thinking about it. The reason is, is because if you have a mailing list or if you have a newsletter, you can be posting things like hey, by the way, Christmas is coming up and and if you have us a special photo from your vacation that your your wife or your husband or your partner or your kids or somebody really loved and you want me to do a custom painting for that, now’s the time to engage me to do that. So it’s ready and dry and varnished and framed by Christmas. And here’s the deadline to get that stuff in and you’ll you’ll remarkably sell a lot of people that’s also true for commissioned portraits. So now is the time to be reaching out. The other thing is now’s the time to be planning start planning your new year. I like to get it planned at least by the fourth quarter but now’s the time to be thinking about what you want to accomplish things like that. But you know holiday planning is great but there’s also keep in mind that people have birthdays, any excuse you have to get out their Mother’s Day. You know people are thinking about what can I get my mom and a beautiful painting or a beautiful drawing or a beautiful photograph or piece of art ceramics whatever you know get them thinking about that way in advance on Mother’s Day not too far in advance but if you’re doing Commission’s yes you’re doing family Commission’s family portrait commissions you gotta have some advanced time but every holiday is an excuse but don’t do it the day before holiday do it you know in time to order in time to come by the studio you know and do do holiday shows you know pick pick the holidays that are most likely for gifts like you know you could do a studio tour Valentine’s Day studio tour get involved in studio tours for Christmas. Those are around Thanksgiving and you know there’s a lot of things like that you can and should be doing so I think plan in advance for gift Commission’s especially and I think that will serve you well. I think that will help. I hope that helps. Anyway, that’s been the art marketing minute.
Announcer 1:19:51
This has been the marketing minute with Eric Rhoads. You can learn more at artmarketing.com
Eric Rhoads 1:19:59
Thank you guys for listening I hope this has been helpful to you. Make sure that you check out Kevin Macpherson’s website. I don’t even know what it is, but I’m sure it’s Kevinmacpherson.com Probably at least you can find him on social media. We would love to have you at pastel live pastellive.com, plein air convention. PleinAirconvention.com, fallcolorweek.com. We’ve only got a few seats left and then make sure you get a subscription to plein air magazine. That would be really cool. If you’ve not seen my Sunday morning blog, I talked about all kinds of things. Sometimes a little controversial. Find it a coffeewitheric.com and subscribe there for free. I’m daily on the air on Facebook, YouTube, etc. I’ve got a show called Art School live. We have had billions of views hundreds of artists doing demonstrations since COVID. Every weekday at 12 noon, you can subscribe on YouTube. By searching art school live hit the subscribe button. Also give me a follow if you will on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter X, I guess, and others. I’m there. Tick tock Yes, I’m there. I’m Eric Rhoades, publisher, and founder of plein air magazine. We hope that you will go plein air painting because it’s a beautiful thing to do. Thank you for your time today. Thanks for listening. And be sure to let us know who you would like to have interviewed coming up. Remember, it’s a big world out there and you need to go paint it. Bye bye.
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These Podcasts are always refreshing. Particularly this one. Yep, I’ve had a short rut but am happily working my way through!
Best of the day,
Walt